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Vote on the 4th


Hello,
On the 4th we will be voting to ratify some changes to the way the Fury works. This post here is to have an open discourse leading up to the vote so everyone has a chance to know what is being voted upon and prevents misunderstandings or hearsay from influencing the way people decide to vote.

The major change these new constitutions bring is that it separates the leadership of the RSO and the Unit. This means that both entities are now able to act independently and in their own best interests. The unit is no longer restrained to being run exclusively out of Mount Pleasant, and the RSO now doesn't have to worry about us interrupting their practices for meetings.

The big things the new Unit constitution would bring to the table should it be ratified:
 - New officer system, your voice now has an ever better representation with the inclusion of Parliamentary Status for sub-units. Sub-units with 4 or more second year members now get the opportunity to have a member of their group sit on the Parliament. Also a new officer position is created to serve as the voice for the veterans of the group.
 - New ways to meet your dues requirements, these are now largely participation based, just doing fun and helpful things around the Fury counts as your dues.
 - Makes all of the Fury recognition official, and sets up new rules to help make them work better, this includes big changes to the Mastery Badge rules so they now actually work.
 - Adds the ability for disciplinary actions to be taken that is less significant than expulsion from the group, an unfortunate addition but one many members have been clamoring for for quite some time.

Changes to the RSO constitution:
 - Fixes the gap in the Quartermaster position making it now explicitly their job to get the arsenal to practices. Also makes it so the Quartermasters are elected each semester (Fall, Spring, Summer) so we don't have gaps caused by unexpected changes (life happens but we still need the arsenal at practice).
 - Practices and events are now run by Envoys, in their stead the officers will run practice. This means you don't need to be a member of the Fury to be involved in practice.

---
Lugh Jayne the King of Belegaria
The Fury of the Called
Fighter of Eryndor, Mourner
I shall not forget; I shall not forgive
11/14/2011, 3:03 am Link to this post Send Email to TheManTheyCallJayne   Send PM to TheManTheyCallJayne
 
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Re: Vote on the 4th


Also as a preemptive measure I will clearly state here that this is not an attempt at a power grab by myself. I understand that it may look that way (can't be president anymore so he makes a new constitution so he can be in charge again) so I will say here that should any members of the Fury request I do so I will decline any nominations made for officer positions should any be made. This change is far more important than me being an officer again and I don't want misconceptions getting in the way of it passing.

---
Lugh Jayne the King of Belegaria
The Fury of the Called
Fighter of Eryndor, Mourner
I shall not forget; I shall not forgive
11/14/2011, 3:07 am Link to this post Send Email to TheManTheyCallJayne   Send PM to TheManTheyCallJayne
 
Finn Tehviking Profile
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Re: Vote on the 4th


quote:

TheManTheyCallJayne wrote:
 - Practices and events are now run by Envoys, in their stead the officers will run practice. This means you don't need to be a member of the Fury to be involved in practice.



Could I get some clarification on this point?

These are some additional questions/comments I came up with after review the new constitution for the unit:

quote:


 “Section C.
Dues
List of available dues:
• Meet the minimum requirements for active unit status

AND

• $10 paid to the treasury.
• Donation of an above standard quality weapon to another member.
• Fighting the entirety of an event with a spear…..”



Maybe add “one of the following” after “AND”

quote:


-In the event this member chooses to regain membership they are readmitted as a Blue Shirt member.
- In the event that a member joins the unit with years of Dagorhir experience, years of former Fury experience, or clearly does not need a Blue Shirt period then immediate Black Shirt Status may be granted by 3/4 Parliament vote.



Scenario: Toland forgets to pay his dues, he loses active status. Two weeks later he pays his dues and regains membership as a blue shirt. When next the parliament meets Toland is granted Black Shirt status by a ¾ vote.
I’m not making an argument here, but am I correct in my thought process?

Similarly, am I correct when I say there is no grace period when it comes to dues?

Continuing on the topic of dues, let’s say I fought all Ides of March with a spear, does that then count towards next season’s dues? Again, just looking for clarification.

quote:


e. Campaigner
Color - Brown/Red
Attend 5 Events (eg: Crossroads or a Day Event) and 2 National Events (eg: Ides of March, Ragnarok, War) in a single calendar year.



Add “Eryndor” after “Attend 5”

Are the terms “officer” and “parliament member” interchangeable?

For instance:
quote:


k. Exemplary Service
Color - White/Blue/Black
Be nominated by a member of The Elder Council for service above and beyond expectations, and confirmed by a unanimous vote of the Officers.



Would this include all parliament members, i.e. sub-group reps?


On a completely separate note...
Some cool sub-units that I could see happening:
1. Mourners
2. Black Dogs
3. Goblins
4. Plaid’s Paramilitary
5. Eldagrim’s Furious Navy
6. FURY OF THE FAR NORTH!!
7. Fury of the Beaverton
8. BUY FINN’S FIBERGLASS inc.

I would also just like to say, wow Jayne, I can tell you put a lot of work into this. Thank you for your effort.


Last edited by Finn Tehviking, 11/14/2011, 1:47 pm


---
~Finn
Fury of the Called
11/14/2011, 12:45 pm Link to this post Send Email to Finn Tehviking   Send PM to Finn Tehviking
 
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Re: Vote on the 4th


quote:

Finn Tehviking wrote:

quote:

TheManTheyCallJayne wrote:
 - Practices and events are now run by Envoys, in their stead the officers will run practice. This means you don't need to be a member of the Fury to be involved in practice.



Could I get some clarification on this point?



RSO Officers run practices with the help any Envoys present. This opens up people who aren't Furytown to be able to help run things without being an Envoy an in official capacity.


quote:

Finn Tehviking wrote:

quote:


 “Section C.
Dues
List of available dues:
• Meet the minimum requirements for active unit status

AND

• $10 paid to the treasury.
• Donation of an above standard quality weapon to another member.
• Fighting the entirety of an event with a spear…..”



Maybe add “one of the following” after “AND”



This is clarified immediately after where it lists things, since blue shirt and black shirts have a different amount of tasks to complete to become active.

quote:

Finn Tehviking wrote:

quote:


-In the event this member chooses to regain membership they are readmitted as a Blue Shirt member.
- In the event that a member joins the unit with years of Dagorhir experience, years of former Fury experience, or clearly does not need a Blue Shirt period then immediate Black Shirt Status may be granted by 3/4 Parliament vote.



Scenario: Toland forgets to pay his dues, he loses active status. Two weeks later he pays his dues and regains membership as a blue shirt. When next the parliament meets Toland is granted Black Shirt status by a ¾ vote.
I’m not making an argument here, but am I correct in my thought process?



Once a black shirt active, you remain one. Just because I am late, even if i was late for two years on dues, i would still remain a black shirt. The only time a black shirt can become a blue shirt is if they go non-com and then return to active, since non-coms start as blue shirts automatically. This would apply, say, if Veleno were to official joing FotC. He is of sufficient experience and has been around enough where he should be treated as a veteran member of the unit. Alternatively, if Jay wishes to become active again, having years of fighting under is belt and helping form the unit, then the parliament may see fit to grant him black shirt status as well.

quote:

Finn Tehviking wrote:
Similarly, am I correct when I say there is no grace period when it comes to dues?

Continuing on the topic of dues, let’s say I fought all Ides of March with a spear, does that then count towards next season’s dues? Again, just looking for clarification.


1) there is no set hard dates for dues in the constitution nor a grace period listed, it us up to the parliament to unanimously set one each season. if they wish for a grace period, it is at their discretion to set one ahead of time, something the current officership has not done in the past but is by no means discouraged.
2) stuff you've already done this is is werid because of the transition period. i believe, and i could be wrong on the intent year so jayne feel free to correct me, but things you do in the current season go towards paying the next season's dues, unless you have yet to pay them. so if i'm already active and fight with a spear for a day of ides, then it goes towards my dues for the 2013 season. if i'm not active yet then it goes towards my current dues. i don't imagine anything will be able to be paid farther than a single season in advance, although the officers could allow it, with the wording on the new Constitution has it stands.

quote:

Finn Tehviking wrote:
Are the terms “officer” and “parliament member” interchangeable?

For instance:
quote:


k. Exemplary Service
Color - White/Blue/Black
Be nominated by a member of The Elder Council for service above and beyond expectations, and confirmed by a unanimous vote of the Officers.



Would this include all parliament members, i.e. sub-group reps?




I think this is a relic wording from before it FotC changed to parliament so that it had a different title from RSO leadership to try and help avoid confusion between the two.

I hope this helped explain things, finn


---
oi.
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Re: Vote on the 4th


quote:

Toland wrote:

quote:

Finn Tehviking wrote:

quote:


 “Section C.
Dues
List of available dues:
• Meet the minimum requirements for active unit status

AND

• $10 paid to the treasury.
• Donation of an above standard quality weapon to another member.
• Fighting the entirety of an event with a spear…..”



Maybe add “one of the following” after “AND”



This is clarified immediately after where it lists things, since blue shirt and black shirts have a different amount of tasks to complete to become active.




I feel this is not something that should be clarified immediately after, but rather something that should be clarified at the time it is brought up. Waiting for other parts of the document to clarify what is said is a significant weakness of the current constitution as you often have to jump around to three or more sections to get the full picture. Clarity, in my opinion, is the most important part of any writing of this nature. If, in this instance, the meaning is that you fill dues by doing one of the following, then 'one of the following' should be listed right there. A later redundancy of this point only serves to re-enforce the meaning. Otherwise, people later on will have large debates about deciphering what the constitution actually means and another re-write for clarity will become necessary.

quote:

Tolandwrote:

quote:

Finn Tehviking wrote:

quote:


-In the event this member chooses to regain membership they are readmitted as a Blue Shirt member.
- In the event that a member joins the unit with years of Dagorhir experience, years of former Fury experience, or clearly does not need a Blue Shirt period then immediate Black Shirt Status may be granted by 3/4 Parliament vote.



Scenario: Toland forgets to pay his dues, he loses active status. Two weeks later he pays his dues and regains membership as a blue shirt. When next the parliament meets Toland is granted Black Shirt status by a ¾ vote.
I’m not making an argument here, but am I correct in my thought process?



Once a black shirt active, you remain one. Just because I am late, even if i was late for two years on dues, i would still remain a black shirt. The only time a black shirt can become a blue shirt is if they go non-com and then return to active, since non-coms start as blue shirts automatically. This would apply, say, if Veleno were to official joing FotC. He is of sufficient experience and has been around enough where he should be treated as a veteran member of the unit. Alternatively, if Jay wishes to become active again, having years of fighting under is belt and helping form the unit, then the parliament may see fit to grant him black shirt status as well.

quote:

Finn Tehviking wrote:
Similarly, am I correct when I say there is no grace period when it comes to dues?

Continuing on the topic of dues, let’s say I fought all Ides of March with a spear, does that then count towards next season’s dues? Again, just looking for clarification.


1) there is no set hard dates for dues in the constitution nor a grace period listed, it us up to the parliament to unanimously set one each season. if they wish for a grace period, it is at their discretion to set one ahead of time, something the current officership has not done in the past but is by no means discouraged.
2) stuff you've already done this is is werid because of the transition period. i believe, and i could be wrong on the intent year so jayne feel free to correct me, but things you do in the current season go towards paying the next season's dues, unless you have yet to pay them. so if i'm already active and fight with a spear for a day of ides, then it goes towards my dues for the 2013 season. if i'm not active yet then it goes towards my current dues. i don't imagine anything will be able to be paid farther than a single season in advance, although the officers could allow it, with the wording on the new Constitution has it stands.



This is where having by-laws would be a good idea. They are easier to change than a constitution and formally list out procedures for things that get this complex. Alternatively, a simpler solution could be pursued within the constitution. I'll think about it and see if I can come up with anything.




Finally, Finn, as Fury of the Far North is their own unit that pre-dates Fury of the Called (and is, in fact, a large portion of the reason Fury of the Called exists), I think it would be wise to not list them as a possible. If Fury of the Far North decides that is a route they wish to pursue, that is on them.

Last edited by Atalan, 11/14/2011, 4:24 pm


---
Treasurer, Fury of the Called.
Vision without a plan is hallucination.
I do not ask for fewer foes, I only ask for a stronger axe.
11/14/2011, 4:11 pm Link to this post Send Email to Atalan   Send PM to Atalan
 
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Re: Vote on the 4th


quote:

Atalan wrote:

Finally, Finn, as Fury of the Far North is their own unit that pre-dates Fury of the Called (and is, in fact, a large portion of the reason Fury of the Called exists), I think it would be wise to not list them as a possible. If Fury of the Far North decides that is a route they wish to pursue, that is on them.



I, of course, meant no offense. I fully respect the wishes of my fellow Midlanders.

---
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Fury of the Called
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Re: Vote on the 4th


So I was one of the many Michiganders without internet today so allow me to answer these points.

Immediately following the list of dues is the number you must complete, it's right there underneath and I felt like adding the rules interspersed among the dues options muddled it more than clarified.

The intend of the vote to make someone a Black Shirt is just as Toland stated. The Blue Shirt status is a way to ease people into the unit without overwhelming them with commitments, which is what we've been doing for years, that's the reason first years only ever had to meet membership requirements and then dues were expected after that first year.

The period for paying dues is they are due before the General Officer Election, as we've always done before. Not paying dues means you lose your voting privileges, but I worked so that you can still meet dues requirements even if you attend only the event required for Black Shirts.

I copied the requirements for Campaigner straight from the post Atalan made, so what I posted is correct as far as I know.

The Exemplary Service Knots are voted upon by Parliament, that was my bad.



---
Lugh Jayne the King of Belegaria
The Fury of the Called
Fighter of Eryndor, Mourner
I shall not forget; I shall not forgive
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Re: Vote on the 4th


Section E. Loss of membership
quote:


6. A member may lose their membership status by failing to pay their dues, and meet active requirements.
a. In the event this member chooses to regain membership they are readmitted as a Blue Shirt member.



I hear what you guys are saying, but I'm not seeing it in the wording... maybe I'm missing something.

quote:


e. Campaigner
Color - Brown/Red
Attend 5 Events (eg: Crossroads or a Day Event) and 2 National Events (eg: Ides of March, Ragnarok, War) in a single calendar year.



Atalan, you mean 5 Eryndor events right?

quote:


The Exemplary Service Knots are voted upon by Parliament, that was my bad.



Jayne, the term "officer" is used several more times throughout the document. In some instances I can clearly tell you are referring to the 5 elected positions, in others I'm not so sure. Can you confirm that everything is how it should be?

Thanks for all the clarification guys. I'm being anal, but I'm an accountant, its sorta our jam.

---
~Finn
Fury of the Called
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Re: Vote on the 4th


quote:

Finn Tehviking wrote:

Section E. Loss of membership
quote:


6. A member may lose their membership status by failing to pay their dues, and meet active requirements.
a. In the event this member chooses to regain membership they are readmitted as a Blue Shirt member.



I hear what you guys are saying, but I'm not seeing it in the wording... maybe I'm missing something.



that section a bit is supposed to be up more, on the bit about someone giving up their unit membership



---
oi.
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Re: Vote on the 4th


Knot document updated to add the missing "eryndor" regarding campaigner knot.

And Finn, this is the kind of thing where we all need to be anal about wording and placement to make sure meaning is clear to anyone who reads the constitution. Not just to those who knew the intent behind the words.

Last edited by Atalan, 11/14/2011, 10:53 pm


---
Treasurer, Fury of the Called.
Vision without a plan is hallucination.
I do not ask for fewer foes, I only ask for a stronger axe.
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